Johan Söderqvist (photo by Jeanette Hägglund)
There are few more impactfully high-toned composers in the world then Johan Söderqvist when it comes to conveying all the powers of drama, particularly in conveying moving familial conflict for such Susanne Bier pictures as “After the Wedding,” “Brothers” and “In a Better World.” Söderqvist embodied anguish of outcast youth in “King of Devil’s Island,” the fateful historical decisions made in “The King’s Choice” and “Before It Ends” as well as the chilling Nordic noir that lies under “The Bridge.” So it might be surprising to see the prolifically serious Swedish composer land in the Peruvian spider-men jungle that gives birth to “Madame Web,” and no more fun for it. Adapting like a fish to water for this eccentric outlier in The Marvel Universe,” Söderqvist spins a fun, spectral web that blends ethnic rhythm, ethereal abilities and the requisite big action climax for Marvel’s elderly prognosticator for Spider-Man, here re-imagined as the way younger Cassandra (Dakota Johnson) who draws together three Spider-Women to be to prevent the evil fate her mother’s now-costumed killer has in store for them in the wilds of New York City. But then, taking on a genre picture like this isn’t as far from Söderqvist’s abilities as one might think given his beautifully eerie score to the O.G. “Let the Right One In,” conjuring earthquakes and blazing oceans in his homeland with “The Quake” and “The Burning Sea” or his rousing, epic action for any number of “Battlefield” videogames. But it’s in “Madame Web” where Söderqvist shows he can swing with his tell-tale abilities at meshing empathy, action and creative soundscapes, here in service of a time-tripping heroine to make a musically impactful Marvel splash for “Jessica Jones” director S.J. Clarkson.
Director S.J. Clarkson (Left) with Dakota Johnson (photo by Sony)
How did you first start working with S.J.?
I did a great Netflix miniseries with S.J. two years ago on a show called “Anatomy of a Scandal,” which was a drama-thriller about an affair in the English Parliament. But we first started talking when S.J. worked on a “Game of Thrones”prequel a few years back, though it didn’t happen.
Were Marvel movies something entirely new to you?
I love Marvel films, and always go with my kids to see them. While I’ve done a lot of dramas, I did score some of the “Battlefield” video games. In that way, it was natural to do “Madame Web” where you’re bringing music to something that’s epic and full of energy. It’s a technical thing to make the music feel big, intense and dramatic in this context together with all the loud sound effects and explosions, and you have to learn how to get the music’s energy through that. You can’t always go louder. You have to sometimes go thinner with specific frequencies. It’s a massive sound world.
Given that you’d never scored a major multiplex superhero movie like this, did you have to do any sort of auditioning to get “Madame Web?”
There’s a lot of my music out there, I’ve done over 90 films, so they could listen to a lot of my stuff on Spotify, but I think I ultimately got it because I’d worked with S.J. before. I always tend to follow the director, so it wasn’t me wanting to do a Marvel film initially. It was me following the director.
Once you got the film, did you start exploring who Madame Web was? She’s certainly different than in the comics.
I didn’t read the comic books, but I did read about Madame Web on the net. I also read what the fans wrote about her, so I had a vague understanding of who Madame Web was, this old lady with all of these pipes coming out of her. But this is a film where we’re leading up to what Cassandra becomes.
What’s the challenge of scoring a superhero movie about déjà vu?
We definitely struggled to find a sound for déjà vu, and I think we partially succeeded. First of all, you don’t want the movie to tell the same story twice. It would take four hours to do that! So you have to think of fast ways of getting that across musically. S.J. used a special camera lens in the film for those transitions. Then we came up with sounds from a glass instrument called the Cristal Baschet, which we then reversed to create one, fantastical sound. We made many, many other weird “reversed” sounds like that throughout the score to get across the idea of time moving forward, yet backwards to get across the idea of these different timelines. That’s an interesting way to musically express a character’s who’s out of time. Musically a déjà vu scene could be very sparse, but also contain multiple musical elements from different parts of the film, playing both backwards and forwards.
Given that this is a Grrl Power superhero film, were you thinking about creating a “feminine” sound as such with your orchestration?
I’d say the score starts with a more “European” way of writing, which is sparse and simple. But as it approaches the end, the music gets more “Marvel-y”. S.J. and I talked a lot about the musical progression of the film and it’s impact. She also mentioned that she liked film scores from the 1970’s. Particularly in how they tend to be a bit more melodic and thematic. In that way, “Madame Web” didn’t have to be “superhero music” all of the time. It could also be something else. So a lot of the music is much smaller, but of course when you get to the end its drums, electronics and big epic music.
What to you is “Marvel superhero music,” and how do you write it?
Is there a recipe for a “Marvel” score? I don’t really know. Isn’t it a bit over the top in some respects when it comes to orchestration with a lot of brass, woodwinds and clear, thematic things? I think that this film needed both the small and the big music. In that way, I really loved what Alan Silvestri did for “The Avengers,” especially with its grandeur. It’s music that’s big and more powerful because of its beautiful, melodic and symphonic approach.
How did you want to play the idea that Cassandra is given powers as a baby by Peruvian spider-people?
One thing that I thought worked really well was that we found sounds that were connected to the actual spider. Through the whole score you hear this sound that’s like a spider crawling quickly. It comes from a wooden sound that my son Jesper played, which we sampled and made some weird stuff from. It was nice to put it almost everywhere. There’s also a theme that you hear in the scenes in Peru with the spider-men (Las Arañas), as well as a smaller version of the theme that would play her connection with them throughout the score. Another motif we had was the sound of strings going up and down in pitch that plays into the tense, thriller aspect of the movie. “Madame Web” might have a simple approach in its music, but it’s set in a very rich, colorful world of sounds.
Jesper Söderqvist playing the Vibraphone
What’s it like working with your son?
It’s fun. Jesper is part of my team and is really good. My daughter Josefin also works on some of my scores. She also works with pop music.
I particularly liked the drama you brought to the scene where Cassandra is unable to prevent a policeman’s death.
S.J. really wanted that scene to be emotional. While there isn’t a lot of piano in the score, she definitely wanted it thereand in some other emotional places.
The Power Station, photo by recording engineer Alex Venguer
What was the overall musical process of “Madame Web” like?
There was a lot of editing and exchange of ideas going back and forth throughout the process with SJ. She knew what she wanted, and I provided her with a lot of sketches. The important thing in the end was to get all of these ideas into one cohesive feeling. The editing of “Madame Web” went right into the final mix. I’ve heard that that’s not uncommon in the states, but it’s a bit different from how I usually work in Europe, where you have a couple of months after the picture is completed that are devoted to the sound and music. “Madame Web’s” music was recorded in New York with fantastic Union players. Unfortunately I didn’t get my Visa in time to be able to attend the sessions. But I would have loved to have been at The Power Station where some of the score was recorded. When I was young, I listened to all of these great jazz records that were played there. The Power Station had that tight sound that was good for adding the other musical elements into it.
“Madame Web” might be getting black widowed by a bunch of critics, but I quite enjoyed the film.
In maybe ten years of hindsight, I’d be able to give you a good answer of what I think about “Madame Web,” because I’ve worked every waking minute for six months on it. So I don’t have that distance right now. But the reason I work on something in the first place is because I love it, and I want to make the film as good as it can be. But I do think people enjoy bashing the Marvel stuff right now, and I don’t think this film deserves it. Right from the trailer, people were doing all of these memes. It feels like they get high on doing that.
Johan with Madame Web’s Bass Waterphone(photo by Jeanette Hägglund)
Does “Madame Web” make you want to jump into this new, tentpole Hollywood world?
As I was saying, I loved Alan’s score for “The Avengers” because he came into it with this beautiful, melodic, orchestral angle. Everything wasn’t hard-hitting. In that kind of context, it would be interesting to score another superhero film like that. I definitely learned from “Madame Web” that it’s very hectic working on a big American film! It’s a different pace. A lot of my career is about have long running creative relationships with directors. I’ve been very lucky to get to work with people that I don’t need to always prove myself to. You can just work together in a very relaxed way. You know each other and have built a common understanding on how to talk about music.
If you could score another Marvel superhero, who would it be?
I really like the new Spider-Man. He’s fun. And I also like Iron Man, but he’s dead now isn’t he?
See “Madame Web” in theaters, with Johan Söderqvist’s score available on Madison Gate Records HERE
Visit Johan Söderqvist’s website HERE
Special thanks to Jamie Bertel, Mikael Carlsson and Josefin Söderqvist